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 which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?

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Ruth Iseli

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Nombre de messages : 123
Age : 106
Localisation : Bale - Suisse
Date d'inscription : 08/09/2010

MessageSujet: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Sam 23 Oct - 19:50

Hi Resonator players:

I have to buy a microphone for my Dobro played in a countryband.
I have no idea, what qualities I have to look for.
Maybe you have hints for that?
Or can tell me, how YOU handle the amplification?

Thanks in advance

Ruth




Bonjour joueurs de Reso,

Excusez mon francais svp...

Je cherche un microphone pour jouer le Reso dans une groupe country. Je n'ai aucune idee de quoi est important ici. Quel qualites sont necessaire pour un reso? J'ai utilise un mic pour des chanteurs , c'etait pas si bon, pas de bass.....
Quel mic est-ce que vous utilisez?
Merci !
Ruth
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Pascal Mesnier

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Date d'inscription : 21/02/2008

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Sam 23 Oct - 20:14

Hi Ruth,
Yes, Don't know if I have to ansver in English or French?
Well, the best for many years is the Shure SM 57. it has been the choice n° one for many pro since 30 years or so.
Otherwhise if you don't have the place for a stand on stage (or your dobro player is moving bit too much) Here is the other choice:
http://www.laguitare.com/guitare-materiel-banc_d_essai-dpa_4099-guitares_resonateur-6285-0.html
DPA 4099-mike.
Forget about the "piezo", a resophonic guitar is something special by it own...
The sound is not in the inside of the guitar itself but almost 50cm out of and around the body cause of the spider-cone "acting" like a speaker.
I have seen many bands ("sweet hollywaiians") using it for tri-cone (even with mandolin) with a great success. Use it with my Squareneck Dobro-Regal 1934 for gigs myself.
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Ruth Iseli

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Nombre de messages : 123
Age : 106
Localisation : Bale - Suisse
Date d'inscription : 08/09/2010

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Sam 23 Oct - 21:30

Hi Pascal
Thank you very much for a fast answer. I checked the sites.... Do I see it correctly:

DPA 4099 mike is a clip mik, designed for guitars? The sound of a accustic guitar is quite different than that from a reso. Same mike anyway? You know it personally right ? Prize about 500 Euro?
The player is me - and I like to move....

The Shure SM 57 is about 110 Euro, right?
Do you think, the DPA is worth that much more, besides the clip?

Where is the position, you use em?
I have a fishman pickup in my Goldtone DX beard finished but don't use it, sounds hard and cold
I have one recording from that Dobro made by a hobby-Mixer. He used 2 mics, one 40 cm from the body, the other 13 cm over the sound hole..... I can't remember what he used but the result was fantastic, Jerry Douglas -like -only the sound thoough, NOT my playing Crying or Very sad

Ruth
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Ruth Iseli

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Nombre de messages : 123
Age : 106
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Date d'inscription : 08/09/2010

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Sam 23 Oct - 21:40

checked your website, made me feel like sun, sand, beach.....
Very nice!
You have a couple of nice instruments though, tricones.....
But I did not see you playing with a "noisy" band, drums, basss etc. In my band, stage sound is loud, this means the monitors has too be close and loud = danger for feedback.
Which of the mics you mentioned would cope better with feedback problems?
Ruth
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James Schmitt
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MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Dim 24 Oct - 5:40

Hi Ruth
from the little that i know, Fishman is prefered & used by many resophonic players
this kind of setup alleviates feedback probs that microphones tend to have

many reso pickers use both at the same time : microphone & tranducer unit
Shure SM57 is a good all around mike

pick up :
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=98

preamp :
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=104

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-0NvAG7KtU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P89yyeVWZ50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O15iC4-_yGs

There's a used Fishman set up for sale here at 300 € :

http://steelguitarfrance.forumactif.com/petites-annonces-f13/fishman-aura-micro-spider-av-t2635.htm



you can also look here too Ruth :

http://www.thomann.de/fr/shadow_sh711_pickup.htm

http://www.thomann.de/fr/micro_pour_guitare_acoustique.html

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audio-Technica-AT831B-Lavalier-Condenser-Microphone-270467-i1126625.gc

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Dernière édition par James Schmitt le Dim 24 Oct - 5:50, édité 1 fois
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Pascal Mesnier

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Date d'inscription : 21/02/2008

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Dim 24 Oct - 8:09

Many thanxxxs Ruth for your kind words.

Yes, the DPA 4099 is a small condenser, and is 48 v. phantom powered: (I agree it's not cheap, but again it's a good condenser)
And works both for acoustics or resophonics.(only the PA settings are different)
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=118&item=24343
The very best is to mix 20% of the piezo (fishman or other) and 80% of this mike or the SM57.
There you'll find a extremely natural sound for your Dobro! (very warm!)
The good new is: I use this only mike for Dobro, vintage SQ "tri-cone", and as you said my Martin or even with my spanish "single-cone", you just have to remove the clip from a side to another. (and of course the PA settings:
PA setting for a guitar is like a" smile" , PA setting for a resophonic is like a "grin")

But I know, playing on stage is something else (feedback), and the band around could play very very loud!

Don't have that problem myself, I only have an acoustic rhythm player (plugged), a doublebass player and a female singer singing Hawaiian, so the sound around is very "quiet". (I fired my drummer long ago!!!)
So it's very easy for me to manage my own settlement.

In other situations, I use an electric lap-steel on stand and a small valve-amp. like they used to do in the middle 40', when the bands became "electrified" and plugged.
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Ruth Iseli

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Age : 106
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Date d'inscription : 08/09/2010

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Dim 24 Oct - 8:56

Thank you, James, it was allmost too much infos.....

Aura Jerry Douglas: I had the chance to test it. Feedback was better, say: less. The different sounds, they're talking about in their youTube commercial: VERY small differences! I had to give it back now and don't think it is something worth his money for me.

Pascal is talking about PA settings. Maybe it wasn't perfect; none of us was experienced with that stuff. Maybe it is worth for me, to get some knowledge there as well, to hand them to the mixer....
What exactly is a PA grin?
Surprised Guitar?
Very Happy Dobro?
Question
But the mix, you mentionend, Psacal, I will surely try that. There's a Fishman Piezo in my Dobi. PA Mr. Green ?

Hope I got that correct

have a nice sunday
Ruth
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Ruth Iseli

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Nombre de messages : 123
Age : 106
Localisation : Bale - Suisse
Date d'inscription : 08/09/2010

MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Dim 24 Oct - 9:03



Hi Pascal,
Do you know this one, a recommandation from a guy that does record, (a recorder?)

http://www.thomann.de/de/the_tbone_rb500.ht
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Pascal Mesnier

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MessageSujet: Re: which Microphone for a Dobro on stage?   Dim 24 Oct - 10:26

:o Guitar?
:D Dobro?
Hmmm, I am not sure of the "smileys" meaning (?), I would say the opposite (SMILE on guitar and Reso (dobros etc.) is an UNHAPPY guitar!) On The PA graphic control settings EQ frequencies and bandwidth) : You only have to remember that!

I found this interesting post on the Michael Messer forum (question was same as yours, BUT for a "National" guitar)

Re: Which pickup if any
« Reply #5 on Sept 28, 2010, 5:47pm »
Hi Chris,

This is just a quick reply as I am just heading out; but in my experience it is easier and quicker to get a great sound through a PA with a mic than it is with the Highlander. (an "Highlander" is the piezo active system for National biscuit-bridge guitars not for spider-web Dobro)

The mic (a Shure SM57) requires no EQ adjustments, just everything set flat and roll off the graphic so it looks more like a frown than a smile . The smile is not good for mic'ing instruments. Then not too much gain and very little, if any, reverb.
Takes me moments to set a PA to get a good sound out of a resonator guitar.

The reason you got feedback problems was because everything was set wrong, probably by a well-meaning person who doesn't really understand.

Think of this >you don't plug your voice into the PA, you use a mic .

I can go into this more when I have more time.....

Shine On
Michael


Read more: http://michaelmesser.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tin&action=display&thread=3441#ixzz13I5NFs8J

And yes before everything you have to learn a few about the PA systems and mics, active or passive piezos. (Bob Brozman has some very useful Sound Hints and tips on his site http://www.bobbrozman.com/soundhints.html)
A Dobro has quiet the same matching EQ settings to a tri-cone. BUT an acoustic guitar is really something else!
All these mics and Aura and... Are not "wizardry", not magical, they're like cars you have to learn how to drive them, and the day you will have a soundcheck, you'll have to ansver questions from the sound-ingeneer...

Pfff... I will never ever use a ribbon mic for live show! They are very special, very good to record voices but very very EXTRA fragile! (and very expensive) I will never buy this chinese copy, mostly for this type of condenser!
You have millions of type of microphones today (from 98€ to 6000€, but they all have an utility (concert, recording, filming, broadcast, voices, drums, amplifiers, banjos, acoustic guitars ...)
Remember a mic is an instrument too! (the "voice" of your instrument on stage) An SM57 stays again the best "anti-feedback weapon" today, it's worth. Coupled with a "good" active piezo, less you will have feedback!

I just ansvered before, you can have a very good sound simply using a (dynamic) SM57 and your piezo (and a little knowledge), and a very bad one using a (cardoid/condenser) priceless "Braun" or a "Neumann KM 84" (+ 1000 Euros!) if you don't do any EQ settings on PA desk and monitors.
I hope that makes sense.
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